All races on Antaron are mortal. Humans, Sylvari, Khordaldum, Cidal, Brathunspar... all of them. They may have different lifespans, but they are all mortal.

So I don't think the celestial idea really works.

Technically, Jusarin is the god of knowledge. Magic is his domain by logical extension - he is the god who seeks to know all there is to know. Arcane spellcasters can and do choose to worship him, but probably only those to whom acquiring new knowledge is the driving force in their lives.

The planes... how do they work in Audalis? Good question. I've had vague ideas, but never delved too far into them.

I never dug the multiverse. Too screwy and I always thought the best stuff was closer to home.

What about psionic races, yeah? I mean, more than a crouching Intellect Devourer ...

It seems as though everyone's made the basic assumption that the nature of the planes and the nature of the afterlife are substantially connected. Here's my thought, together with a justification for it.

We do know that in several published settings many of the evil dead are, essentially, turned over to the fiends. They often spend centuries as fodder, or even food, and some eventually decay into the substance of the plane itself, but they are frequently invested with higher stations, eventually becoming outsiders themselves... notable mortals can even skip the initial steps and go straight to "life" as a notable devil/demon.

My suggestions, which has what I consider to be the advantage of leaving the nature of the planes in Audalis as somewhat vague, letting it be filled in later, is that this be the more or less standard occurence for all alignments. So upon death you're not only judged based on your morality, but on your notariety as well. So, for example, a Neutral Good barbarian who did little to champion nature or good, while nonetheless valuing both principles, might end up as a minor fey or other neutral good, nature-oriented outsider. A truly remarkable person might, upon death, be found worthy of an afterlife as an archfiend, solar, etc. This has neat resonances with the way that certain outsiders (slaadi, for example) can infect mortals to spread their type, and the problems involved in bringing back such mortals. Followers of specific deities would thus not necessarily be treated differently, but would likely spend their afterlives in service to (or even cooperation with) their divine patron. In this system, the divine ascencion of former mortals is a logical extension of the usual occurance... it's not so much that the sponsor deity is really generous toward a favorite, but that the newly fledged divinity simply lived an extremely remarkable life... their later association with the patron is thus a consequence of adhering to an allied philosophy as a mortal, and probably of the fact that the sponsor deity pled their case, attesting to the truly remarkable contribution of that particular person.

The true neutral, then, would be treated much the same way as everyone else, with the simple difference that there are, perhaps, fewer remarkable, worldshaping mortals of that alignment and hence, fewer true neutral outsiders of note. Someone committed the the principle of balance might be considered notable enough to become a remarkable powerful creature upon death, the the "neutral by apathy crowd" is likely to end up as something a high level adventurer would wipe off his shoe. Perhaps people for whom alignment never played a major factor are bound for the elemental planes, providing the source for new mephits and elementals, who are generally neutral.

I'm not sure what your take on undeath is in Audalis, but I'm shying away from making it the end destination for any large class of people. At least by default, undeath seems, well, unnatural, the result of magical meddling in the natural order of things, or perhaps of a mortal will so corrupt (and strong) that it avoids judgement entirely, never leaving the mortal plane.

Just a thought. Or three... Hope something useful can be gleaned from it, if only indirectly.

Realms with multiple deities should definitely have more than two general destinations. "For every soul there are a million harbors", after all.

If human beings exerted no influence whatsoever in shaping reality, why would the gods care whether or not they had any followers? Just as faith in their gods makes the gods strong, humans' choice of a lifestyle should affect the face of the paradise or hell to which they are called.

Just my two cents, and fyi this is just my opinion relative to the DnD setting!

Thesse are some of my thoughts on this topic.

I don't think you can have just one concept of the afterlife because their are so many different Dieties and they each have their own way of doing things. Gods have their own heavens, or whatever they have promised their faithful followers. The heaven/or afterlife would be in keeping with the particular deity or force believed in, such as nature, etc., alignment and sphere of influence. Faithful worshippers go to their own God's place afterlife. A good Diety may reward his followers with a pleasent agterlife while and Evil god would use souls to further his own aimsm regarless of what he had promised them.

As for reincarnation yes that is certainly possible depending on the Gdd. Gods of life and living and judgement might well send souls back to help the world, Gods of judgement might well send souls back to try again to see if they d=can get it right the second or third time.
Gods of Death problably will not beincarnate souls being rather possessive of the dead he/she has. Good Gods may well sent back heros or souls of those who will do good in the world. A god of Destruction may well render souls to nothingness since that is the goal of this diety.

But what about the unbeliever, the irreligious person who dies without a Diety or belief in a higher being? They go into a Limbo and wait their. Gods would probably sweep through on occasions and pick up the souls of those whose hearts can be directed to the worship of a particular Diety--those who had second thoughts about their irregilious state while in Limbo. Those may just take that soul to their "heaven" or hell and deal with it there or sent it back, reincarnated, so it can make a choice.

Very good discussions here, can't believe I had missed it. A few opinions were ventured that each race may have their own beliefs of an afterlife, and with multiple dieties, there may be different afterlives for different followers and that cooresponds to how faith has evolved in our own "real" world.

I think what's important to note or agree upon is that afterlife beliefs are just that: beliefs, not fact. Even in stories of re-incarnation, the returnees never speak of the afterlife experience, or merely give hints, so none living really know where they go after death. We can only hope (or dread) and believe. That gives each player the ability to explore their character's spirituality and beliefs, should they chose to do so, and DM's and Audalis material contributors have some creative leeway.

In my long lost attempt to write a background for the Syls, I had thought about this some, and since I had envisioned a tight relationship with Nature and the innate circle of life, I was thinking that Syls believe in a form of re-incarnation. The consciousness returns to Kith Jora, to the Eternal Forest, and after a time, may well be reborn in another form. What that form may be is decided by Kith Jora, so Syls don't necessarily look for ancestors to be reborn as descendants, but it fits the idea that Syls (or to use more common D&D terms) elves are mortal yet eternal. There must be something that endangers that possibility, however, whether it be dying while in some sort of disgrace,or a repudiation of Kith Jora (i.e. evil alignment), etc.

Still somewhat amorphous, but perhaps with my upcoming reduction in travel, I can "dust off" my neglected opus and work on it some more.

is so nice to meet you and i like a descripeson (:

Interesting takes, all! I am very glad to see this old discussion dusted off... welcome back, Mith - don't stay gone so long next time.

The idea of syls being reincarnated as another natural being is one that had never occurred to me. I do like it, though I'm not totally sold.

As to the comment regarding "lots of gods, no one way", this is very true - there is no one size fits all answer for the afterlife. I think that since each deity is different, the associated afterlives should be, as well.

I do NOT like the standard D&D alignment-defined planes tied to a deity approach. To me, someone who has worshipped Rydor, and spent his life championing justice and fairness - but is of neutral good alignment - shold still go to Rydor's afterlife, despite the fact that Rydor is lawful good.

I also agree, I don't think that undeath should be a standard afterlife destination. Undead are, by and large, artificial creatures dur to spells and similar meddling. Only some noteable free-willed undead (vampires, for instance) are an exception to this.

More musings to come...

the question is: is death definitively the end? I think that if you put all followers of Rydor's way into the same 'plane' or 'heaven', you get a bit of an afterlife that sounds extremely boring. Perhaps we can spice things up a bit? You know, will all good and righteous beings still be good and righteous once they are put in an environment where everything is peaceful? Won't a dead soul be bored?

That's why reincarnation is so interesting: you have something to look forward to. And I think Vanadia's approach is good: you don't always reincarnate into whatever you were close to.

Or perhaps a totally different idea: your body decomposes and becomes worm-food, then worm-poo, and eventually returns to the earth.
But how about the soul? Does it also decompose, while in a invigorating delerious state? Is that state what we perceive as heaven? Does it eventually desolve back into the earth's being to be taken up again into another soul after years, weeks, decades? Is death really definitive, or is there a short time-limit to retrieve a soul?

well... just a bunch of musings and thoughts, nothing concrete really...