Get out while you still can...do what I did and turn to FUZION, bastardize that rule set by combining it with some decent aspects of 3.5 and completely ignore WoTC for all of their stupidity.

I'm happily playing away mostly oblivious to the disaster that D&D/FR has become.

..... first mention I ever heard of 4e was that you would be able to play online internationally!

From all the griping I have heard at the RDInn that may be the only good thing about it, but then again having what most of you call an aberration online would actually just be a magnified nightmare!

... in the form of pamphlets, flyers, booklets, newsletters, and the like about 4e and how wonderful it is (and will be). I have been stripping them all up and using them to work on (finish?) my paper-maché dragon.

It is 5.5 feet tall, 9 feet long, and is unfinished as yet ...

... and it looks oddly like a crouching rat ... (?)

From what little I have seen of 4th Edition it makes me so damn sad and angry that they took something I love and turned it into absolute crap.

All I can say is never fear, 2e will always be here.

Anyone who opens a 4e game here will be banned.

j/k

But seriously, I will not touch 4e. Not one little bit.

I think I'll probably buy the 4th ed. PHB and take a look at the core rules. There may be something in there that's worthwhile.

What I object to is everything apart from the core game mechanics at the moment.

The online tools look good but there is no way I'm paying for them.

I say ignore WotC, pick your fav edition and alter the rules until you like them.

..... listing of books needful for 2e and 3.5 that I should look for while on vacation this summer?

I would probably consider the 4e if I have room in my luggage by space and weight to bring books back overseas!

Any Suggestions?

as in you really need them otherwise you cannot play?

For both editions: Players hand book, Dungeon master guide, Monster Manual (Wasn't that monstrous manual in 2nd?)

What I really enjoyed in 2nd edition were the player's option books: Spells and magic, combat and tactics, skills and powers. But not everyone agrees on that I think.

If you have the core books, and a good imagination, that's all you'll need

..... that presently I am at the mercy of all my good friends here at the Red Dragon Inn who have taken the time to create my characters with the little bit of info that I am able to provide them!

Thanks for the Book Info Tips!

So they took something good they had, turned it upside down, shook it a bit, shook it some more, banged against a table, turned it back up again and moved what was left a 100 years ahead in time.... WHY?

Everything people liked about the Realms is gone. The only things left behind are... *control yourself man* ... well, crap. Drizzt? I don't know one person who wanted to hear more of him after the first trilogy.

Tyr killing Helm over Tymora??? What on earth is this? Bold and the Beautiful in FR? They're gods for frigging sake. Never liked the idea of a Cyric becoming a god in the first place. Hell, I'm not a believer myself, but I still would consider a god exactly that - a god! Not a man turned deity thing. End of that whine.

Thay is a big mountain with a Sauron type of lich running it? What was wrong with the original Thay?

Cormanthor is back? Cormyr has expanded to east? But Sembia is ruled by Shades?

Orcs are civilized? Gnomes are monsters? Halflings live in the swamps? Tieflings have their own nation in the realms? I always thought Tieflings were a result of a demon/devil mating with a non-demon/devil humanoid - not a race of their own? A bit like the half-elves... Now they have their own land.... Perdy.

Blackstaff sacrificed himself? Sure. Elminster is crazy... well if Mystra is dead then I can understand the state of her chosen ones - especially the 7 sisters, but why would Simbul still be around if the others are gone?

Dwarves have joined their dark brothers??? Huh? Duergar are no longer evil or all dwarves are now evil?

No druids?!?!? Whatta hell is that crap?

lmater - Becomes Jack Tripper, and moves into Brightwater - eh... please come again?


Like dear Ginafae, I'll be sticking to 1350-60's and let WotC do whatever they please.

*singing* Thay, Thay, Thay what you want, but don't leave me with just a lich king......

Sorry. Song got stuck in my head and won't move until I posted that.

I've long since removed almost all evidence of WotC's FR from my campaigns. Even though I still run my campaign in the land called Fearun, it is no longer their Fearun--it is but a shade of their rule system as well. I'll not go back. As a matter-of-fact, my campaign is shifting, and I'll likely be having a layover in Audalis while moving my players to my own campaign world.

One of my players has been trying to get me to take an interest in 4.0, and cited a few of their rule changes to me in the hoped of having me pay it some mind. If I remember correctly there isn't one thing that he listed that I like, and we haven't even discussed FR changes.

Some people make bad decisions. Who knows, I remember feeling absolutely betrayed when they switched from Greyhawk as their main setting to FR, and again when they moved over to...whatever the other one was. And here I am feeling like they're walking away from it all again. The only difference is that I walked away from their foolishness years ago, so I know for a fact I won't be buying from them.

My problem is this:

When I started DMing I was 11 or 12, I had to use the WotC stuff because I was too young to create my own materials for my game. I would now but I don't have enough time. Over the holidays I plan to have a long sit down and think about D&D, I'll create my own source materials and realms as well as time periods and time-line.

But until then I have to use WotC, it's convenience and there are enough lazy people to not bother questioning it.


EDIT: Needless to say I will post the finalised rules up on the inn for your use if you choose to use them and any input would be invaluable, if you do have something you want to suggest or tell me then send it to me directly so this thread stays on topic.

Ok, just got done with a game I was dragged into by a couple of friends.....Don't do it even for a friend. The terminology is has been changed and the books an’t cheep.

My first level Cleric could not do much and neither could my fighter what they could do was less then 3.5ed first levels. They changed the name of elves and a few other stuff already posted.

On the positive side the characters have healing surges that will gain back 7 points. And the Mage had magic missiles at will which was useful.

This new system is loosely called D&D for it has been dummied down a LOT. This could be usable as a beginner’s first taste of role playing with a D&D bent to be followed up by the real thing later. Or translated to a computer game.

It is a very different from 3.5 and earlier versions. I would classify as a new type of game that follows the classic Dungeon crawl scenario.