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Topic: I'm gonna get shot.... 2nd Edition DnD Game!
Subject: Me
I'm playing, but I need to know what books are allowed and such before I can make a character.
Posted on 2009-01-12 at 22:27:00.
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Topic: Vampires VS Lycanthropes
Subject: Argument?
I'm not trying to win an argument, and I'm not trying to prove him wrong. Sorry that I'm not willing to read half a dozen books in toto on the off-chance that they might actually contain the answer to my question. I'm also not willing to read all the book each of those book reference because some of them might have the answer. I asked a question, and the response was nopt only an answer in the negative, it only referenced other negative answers as well. So the answer I received is: "No, I have no references to back up my claim." The fact that it's followed with "Maybe if you look hard enough, you might one, here's a starting part which could help... maybe" changes that not at all. Sorry.
However, if you consider the question unanswered, then you shouldn't be hassling me about it, ytou should be hassling him for not answering my question.
Posted on 2009-01-12 at 22:25:02.
Edited on 2009-01-12 at 22:26:06 by Rystefn K'ryll
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Topic: Vampires VS Lycanthropes
Subject: True, but...
If another historian is questioning your statements, and you haven't got a contemporary account, you need something pretty strong to back it up. When I ask for a pre-1920s reference, and the response is a 21st century reference, with a list of references going back to the 1970s, that doesn't exactly count as an answer to my question. I suppose I could go back and check all the references from those books, and then check the references of their references... but frankly, I don't see why I should. I asked if you had any references, and it's clear that you don't. I'll consider my question answered.
Posted on 2009-01-12 at 21:58:57.
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Topic: Vampires VS Lycanthropes
Subject: Small problem, though
Vampires killed by sunlight are a lot easier for a werewolf to kill than vampires not killed by sunlight.
Also, none of those books predate the 1920s. If you're going get all upset about me not following the link, you should do so before I actually follow the link, by the way. Waiting until after I've followed it is something of a waste of time, isn't it?
Posted on 2009-01-12 at 21:12:49.
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Topic: I'm gonna get shot.... 2nd Edition DnD Game!
Subject: So...
Is this game not happening?
Posted on 2009-01-12 at 21:07:46.
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Topic: What is Real?
Subject: Subjective
Your perceptions are subjective and can be changed by hallucinating. Reality are those things which, even when you don't percieve them, can still hurt you. Let me ask you a question: If you perceive that I slapped you across the face with a handful of posies, and I perceive that I did it with a hammer, how do we know which of us is right? According you to your philosophy, we're both right. According to mine, one of us is wrong, and if it's you, you're going to be severely injured.
Posted on 2009-01-12 at 21:05:39.
Edited on 2009-01-12 at 21:40:00 by Rystefn K'ryll
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Topic: Vampires VS Lycanthropes
Subject: Yeah, yeah
I know the phrase didn't originate with the game. It's Latin, and orginated in, you know... Rome. It looked like a game link to me.
Anyway, I followed the link, read it, and couldn't find a single ference to a pre-Nosferatu vampire killed by sunlight. Maybe I'm missing it.
Posted on 2009-01-12 at 03:57:59.
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Topic: What is Real?
Subject: That's nice...
...but your opinion does not define reality. I'm not trying to make you look like a moron, but if you think the only way to have a pleasant conversation is to agree, then you're wrong. If one person believes in a god, and another person believes in a nother god, and a third person says there are no gods of any kind at all, at least one of them has to be wrong. More likely two. No matter how honestly and completely they all think they are right, it's simply impossible for all three to have the "truth."
You can let your mind wander and pretend everyone is always right about everything if you like, but I'll take understanding and knowledge, myself.
By the way, you might want to do a quick Google search for "Logical Fallacies" before trying to continue a discussion of either logic or philosophy. You might particularly want to pay attention to the entries for Straw Man, Begging the Question, and False Dichotomy.You're also teetering on the edge of Argument ad Hominem, but so am I as a general rule... just thought I'd warn you before you step over that edge.
Posted on 2009-01-12 at 03:51:47.
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Topic: The Fall of Our Great Kingdom: Vampiric Tale
Subject: Lamiel
It had been a simple enchantment, but the lot had completely bought into it. A broken wing had halped distract them, but sometimes chance blows a favorable wind. They had gone to the witch's house for healing and rest, which was safer than some village, but complicated Lamiel's plans. A young witch, by appearances, but of unknown power and ability. At the very least, probably highly resistant to simple enchantments.
Lamiel had no intentions of sleeping within and possibly coming to some sort of magical face-off on the witch's home ground. The way the young vampire latched onto her immediately spoke of either strong and subtle magic or a risky snap judgement on the vampire's part. Both were worrisome and potentially dangerous.
It was interesting to the masked vampire's reactions, as well. So quick to bestow unwanted nicknames upon others, he flew into a rage at the wholly accurate appellation of "bloodsucker," and was very upset at the correct description of the way he took advantage of people. It spoke of a great deal of self-loathing, which would explain his driving need to be liked, even loved, by those around him. His readily admitted fixation on women would imply that the source of his pain and rage was likely from that quarter. Not a mother... a lover, perhaps? Lamiel wondered idly if he had hurt her or if she had hurt him. Possibly both.
Then the Lycan had refused to sleep in the witch's house. Ever the canny warrior, she had decided not to allow the witch to have total advantage over the little group under the perfectly reasonable guise of preferring to sleep out of doors. Had it not been for all the other little hints adding together, Lamiel could easily have believed it was other than a warrior's instinct directing that move. Jessica was a subtle and crafty one - an asset so long as their goals were aligned, but care would be required.
Regardless, Lamiel would wait outside as well. It would be conspicuous of her to do so openly, however, but that was no problem for the rest of the small group. The illusion might serve as a test of the witch's powers as well, in fact. So it was a dream-image of Lamiel lying in the bed that night, while the real angel never so much as stepped across the threshhold of the witch's cottage.
It was a simple matter to step into the image after it wandered out of doors again the next day.
Posted on 2009-01-11 at 21:56:29.
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Topic: What is Real?
Subject: Sorry Bab
Truth isn't subjective. If there's a difference between what I say is real and what someone else says is real, one of us is wrong. Maybe both. Saying nonsense about how everyone is right might make people feel better, but it advances knowledge and understanding not at all. There very much IS a right answer. We may not know what it is, but it's out there, and no one will ever figure it out by pretending there isn't one.
Posted on 2009-01-11 at 21:22:47.
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Topic: What is Real?
Subject: BWP
Actually... I hated Blair Witch because it was a bad movie. I love Firefly, and very little of that story was ever resolved.
Posted on 2009-01-09 at 23:36:43.
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Topic: Vampires VS Lycanthropes
Subject: Yeah...
Tabula Rasa, though, is a video game. Pretty modern reference, that.
Posted on 2009-01-09 at 11:16:28.
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Topic: The Fall of Our Great Kingdom: Vampiric Tale
Subject: Maybe
"All it takes is one person to see through it, and then there's a witch-hunt. Or worse, what if the rebels are there?"Lamiel simply looked at him, no expression in her black eyes, waiting for an answer.
Posted on 2009-01-09 at 06:23:31.
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Topic: The Fall of Our Great Kingdom: Vampiric Tale
Subject: Town?
"Do you really think that's a good idea?" Lamiel asked, leaning qietly against a tree a few yards behind them. "Even supposing there's a healer in the town skilled enough to properly set a broken, why are you so sure such a person would be willing to help you? Vampires, Fallen Angels... Like a pack of wolves wandering up to a flock of sheep and asking for help."
Posted on 2009-01-09 at 05:30:10.
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Topic: Vampires VS Lycanthropes
Subject: Interesting
Do you, by chance, have any reference for that?
Posted on 2009-01-09 at 01:31:20.
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Topic: Vampires VS Lycanthropes
Subject: Well...
Given that sunlight is not generally fatal to anyone or anything, I think it's a fairly safe assumption that unless specifically stated otherwise, it doesn't kill your specific supernatural. I mean, I can't recall any instances of zombies specifically surviving the wind, either, but I feel it's pretty safe to say that it's not fatal.
Posted on 2009-01-09 at 00:50:12.
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Topic: Vampires VS Lycanthropes
Subject: Fiar enough
Dracula had nothing about grains in it. That's from somewhere else.
I can calim that it was not Stoker's idea that vampires are not killed by sunlight becuase there's no reference to them being killed by sunlight I've ever heard of (nor apprently that anyone I've ever talked to has ever heard of), from before the 1920s. If you've come across something older than that, I'd like to ehar about it, but until someone can provide an example otehrwsie, I'll stand by what I said earlier.
Posted on 2009-01-09 at 00:33:14.
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Topic: Vampires VS Lycanthropes
Subject: Vorrioch
I was more or less assuming European vampirism, since a Chinese vampire has almost nothing in common with the creatures we're talking about. You were talking about WoD, but the original post was not, so I thought I'd jump in with some perspective on that front. Yes, there ar variations on the theme in the rest of the world, I won't even try to argue against that, as it is completely accurate and I agree 100%
The sexualization of vampires is a VERY modern devlopment compared to the age of the vampire legends as a whole. It seems to have arisen more or less entirely within the Victorian era, a time so completely repressed that essentially everything was sexualized.
Posted on 2009-01-08 at 23:56:00.
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Topic: Vampires VS Lycanthropes
Subject: ok
-1 is not sufficient. Not even close. It's not quite as bad as D&D saying gold made good armor, but it's not really addressing the issue except to gloss over it.
Also, you should note that I didn't say anything about getting rid of vampires by holding them at bay or sending the to someone else's house - I was only talking about killing them, which neither a jar of grain nor a missing sock will do (and given that the sock a fairly recent invention by clothing standards, I'm not sure where that came from anyway).
Again, running water stop vampires, but doesn't kill them, although I should have said that burying the head in a river might work as well as a crossroads, but you have to be careful, because if it washed ashore, the creature may rise again.
Salt does hold evil at bay, and it does count against vampires, but a stiff breeze can easily lend it a path through, especially if the vamp thinks to blow on it (assuming your breed of vamp can breathe... some cannot). However, since the sea is both flowing water AND salty, disposing of the body therein is generally held to be effective, as I intended to mention before, but on futher review, seem to have left off.
Silver killing werewolves is pretty much Hollywood, but since silver has been widely considered to be proof against evil, it makes a kind of sense (though, historically, many animal changers were not considered evil at all).
I'm not claiming that Stoker invented vampires, merely pointing out that at the time, sunlight did not kill them. I happen to know for a fact precisly the origin of that particular idea, actually. It is the movie "Nosferatu, eine Symphonie des Grauens" in 1922. Among the many things the filmmakers changed from Stokers version in an (unsuccessful) attempt to bypass copyright protections on Dracula was that sunlight killed him, rather than the Kukri of Stoker's version... also, it is interesting to note that even though in the end of the novel, it seems Dracula is killed by beheading with a large knife, it is repeated several times in other parts of the work that conventional weapons (knives and guns) cannot harm him. Essentially, Stoker himself let us know that Dracula was not, in fact, dead at the end of the book, but changed form (which he had done many times already at that point), and made his escape.
As far as WoD goes, the new rules are substantively different from the old, and one of the ways this is reflected is the toning down of Werewolf awesomeness. In the old rules, even a non-combat specced Garou would tear up nearly any combat-specced Vamp right out of the gate. Vampires were winning that war (which it was at the time), through subtler means. That's what vampires did. For the most part, if a vampire was in a physical fight, the bloodsucker had already screwed up badly. Especially if the fight was against another supernatural. The new rules are a bit more homogenized, and supernaturals are more or less evenly matched in most respects, whereas before, each wildly overmatched most of the others at one or two things... With the exception of Magi, who wildy overmatched nearly everyone at nearly everything, except surviveability, and Changelings, who were essentially the second best at everything.
Posted on 2009-01-08 at 23:49:30.
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Topic: The Fall of Our Great Kingdom: Vampiric Tale
Subject: Sorry I wasn't around yesterday, something came up
The Fallen hadn't wanted to go, and the male had come back earlier than expected, but soon the goup was squabbling among themselves, seeming to forget about everything else in the world except their petty personal issues. Except the panther. never getting sucked in, always keeping an eye on what was happening, she seemed the only warrior in the group... Of course, in company such as this, appearances were not to be trusted. Any enchantress worth the name knew that already, though.
It would seem chance was on her side this night, though. A sream of pain shook the woods, and the small group quickly rushed to find the source. It was difficult to supress the urge to go with them, but if they had been found already, she would only hinder them in a fight, and if it was a ploy, she would be playing into their hands. As soon as all eyes turned away, Lamiel began to tug at the threads of magic, bending the light and weaving them together. She must be quick, but Lamiel was skilled and had many years of experience. Within a few moments, the enchantment was in place, and she cautiously followed the path the others had taken. When they returned, it would seem as though nothing had been changed at all.
Posted on 2009-01-08 at 22:57:00.
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Topic: Vampires VS Lycanthropes
Subject: Silver
You're also leaving out the fact that silver is utter crap for making weapons. It's too light to make a good bullet, and too soft to make a good blade. Yeah, they're taking agg from them, but if you know your physics, you'll know that a silver bullet is unlikely to kill a regualr human unless you hit them in the head, even from a .45 at fairly close range. I could fold a silver knife in half with my bare hands, and while I'm not exactly a small peson, I'm nothing like a body-builder or something like that, either. Any game system that makes any kind of sense should reflect this, and it's always bothered me that WoD never addressed these issues, given the existence of shapechangers, and their weaknesses to various metals... Well, the old Breedbook Mokole explained the imprcticality of gold as a weapon, but that's about it... and it still left out that a golden broadsword would be bending under its own weight if held by the handle alone.
To step outside of the WoD concept for a moment, traditionally, there are quite a lot of ways to kill a vampire - the stake through the heart, by the way, is not one of them. That's Hollywood. So is sunlight. Trditionally, sunlight is an annoyance (Bram Stoker has Drac go out in daylilght with nothing but a coat and hat to protect him), and the stake is to hold the monster to the ground so it can't get up while you actually kill it. I've never seen a movie show the right kind of stake, either. Those dinky twelve-inch things you see most of the time won't do it. You're supposed to use a yard-long stake, drive as deep as you can, then saw off most of the top so it can't be pulled out during the ritual. You actually kill the thing by cutting off its head, filling the mouth with holy wafers, burying it at a crossroads, and burning the body.
Of course, if you have less care for the soul of the host body, just burning it will do. Luckily, all a traditional vampire can really do to the living is give them anemia, chronic fatigue syndrome, or at worst, tuberculasis, all of which are treatable in the modern world.
So far as I'm concerned, a regular wolf is scarier than that, even without the "Were-" prefix.
Oh, and the pretty, pale, and gothy vampire is also a modern invention. traditional vampires were usually bloated, ruddy, and more or less disgusting... part of that from sleeping in the grave and digging free every night, but probably mostly from partial decomposition, which is not exactly sexy in Rystefn's worldview.
Posted on 2009-01-08 at 22:41:27.
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Topic: The Fall of Our Great Kingdom: Vampiric Tale
Subject: Food
That was an interesting development... The plan didn't work out, so now one must be made up on the fly. For a moment, Lamiel had almost believed there was nothing more to the suggestion than hunger, but then she remembered the alert, watchfulness of the Lycan, and the warrior's scars she bore. This one was quiet and put on a meek and timid front, but she was a clever tactician and experienced warrior. No, Lamiel would not be falling into this trap.
"Yes, this would be a good point for the hunt, as we are already waiting for one. We will all meet back here and then continue." It was a desperate plan, but there was little else to do. Forcing the fight here and now would put her at a disadvantage, and there was still the thin, so very thin, chance that all was as innocent as the group was playing it to be.
Posted on 2009-01-07 at 21:53:32.
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Topic: The Fall of Our Great Kingdom: Vampiric Tale
Subject: Chat
Lamiel walked on, listening to the Fallen Angel. She couldn't decide if her companion talked to fill the silence or to keep her mind off of the horrors of the battle, though massacre was probably the more accurate term for what had happened. After a few minutes, it occurred to the enchantress that perhaps the talk was a distraction. Noise to cover up some other sound. One of the vampires had gone, the other was behind her with a the panther, and this creature had earlier flown high, perhaps to check for something, perhaps to give a signal... Maybe the warning had been a way to allay what remained of her conscience.
Perhaps it was nothing, but caution would be the best course. Suddenly, she stopped, and waited for Miv and Jessica to catch up. "Here is our turning. We must wait for your other companion, or he will lose the way."
Posted on 2009-01-07 at 20:15:56.
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Topic: The Fall of Our Great Kingdom: Vampiric Tale
Subject: betrayal
Repressing a shudder at the necessary feeding habits of the vampires, Lamiel noticed that the remaining one had moved up beside her. "Trust? Maybe I'm trusting all of you more than I should, but someone must trust first. Call it a show of good faith, if you will."
The pale vampire and the dark angel walked in silence next to one another for a few moments, then Lamiel turned to Miv, "Do you think I'm under some kind of illusion thatt if I betrayed you four, I would live to tell the tale? Out here, alone and unarmed? I'm not that kind of a fool..."
Posted on 2009-01-07 at 05:37:14.
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Topic: The Fall of Our Great Kingdom: Vampiric Tale
Subject: Careful
Careful... A lone angel in a group of vampires and a fallen angel, and a changer... and the Fallen was the one warning about the others? If that wasn't enough to keep any angel on her toes, nothing was. Still, the whole dynamic of this little group was intriguing. Careful observation would be the key to making this work...
Posted on 2009-01-07 at 04:14:32.
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